Dan

There's a "carbon" fin that's been getting some attention, it's the NS / Nautilus spearfishing blades Nautilus Spearfishing – Miami Dive Shop » NS Series Carbon Blades and Nautilus NS Series Carbon Blades and Pockets New Batch!!! - Spearboard Spearfishing Community At an affordable $199.99 they're attractive to those looking to upgrade to their first carbon blades.






It's important that divers know what they're buying, especially when there's an attempted deception. Nautilus blades are Leader blades LeaderFins.com with a different sticker. This in itself wouldn't be a big deal, rebranding is normal in the industry. The foul as I see it is that along side the "NS" blades, Nautilus is selling the exact same blades at the lower price of $175 correctly labeled as Leader Nautilus Spearfishing – Miami Dive Shop » LeaderFins Carbon Steriofins Wave Blades Fins. The only reason I see for this is an attempt to confuse a potential buyer into thinking that the NS fins are more expensive and better than the Leader fins, in reality they are one and the same.



Because Pursuit carbon blades are more expensive http://speardiver.com/fins-footpocke...roll-call.html I'm often faced with the same questions from guys who know about the Nautilus blades; why are Pursuit carbon blades more expensive? How are they better than the Nautilus blades? So after much contemplation I decided to make the answers available publicly.

The cost of Leader / Nautilus carbon blades is cheaper than any other blades on the market period. You don't need to simply believe me, go to LeaderFins.com and see for yourself. The retail price of the carbon blades is 90 euro. The low retail cost is reflective of lower production costs, which is in part due to low labor costs (the blades are made in Estonia), as well as materials and production process.

Leader fiberglass blades are not even worth talking about, they are so slow/have no snap, little if at all better than good plastic long fins. Leader carbon blades are fiberglass blades with two layers of carbon fiber, one on the top surface and one on the bottom surface. This makes Leader blades have the outward appearance of a carbon blade, and at the same time be durable but heavier and slow/with little snap/less reactive as compared to quality carbon fins. For those who don't know it's the lightness and tendency of the carbon blade to very quickly snap back to straight after being flexed, that makes the performance difference. Someone who has no experience with carbon blades, and is given the opportunity to flex and release one kind of blade alongside another, will immediately become aware of the difference.

Another important aspect of the blades is rails. Rails are the system which secures the blade in footpockets. For an explanation of rails see this thread Fin blade rails, water channeling and tendon rails explanation Leader / NS blades have an inferior rail system with water channeling rails running the length of the blade. Then cutting down the height of the water channeling rails in the area where the footpocket tendons grip. The resulting small rails appear like they would do the job of tendon rails, but in reality because they're not specifically designed for this purpose the rails are too thick to fit in the tendon slot properly. This results in poor grip of the footpocket tendons over the blade, and the probability of the blade popping out of the tendons during a powerful fin stroke.

All that said, Leader offers decent entry level blades in their "carbon" blades, which are definitely superior to any plastic longfins. As such I decided to add them to the Speardiver store, with improvement in some aspects and no misinformation.

Stiffeness: Medium only. Soft from Leader are very slow and provide poor propulsion. Hard are stiff like boards.
Color: Conventional carbon pattern only. The new Algae camo carbon blades include a layer of the colored stuff which is pretty but slows down an already slower blade.
Rails: Original Leader water channeling rails, with Pursuit tendon rails installed to match exactly the length of the tendons for the footpocket you are using.



Logo: Leader logo, no logo, a mermaid, whatever you want. Except Pursuit logo.



Price: $160
Caveat: Don't ask me any more questions about these blades.

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Speardiver Gear

fishingdude

Man Dan, you must be really feeling the pinch from Nautilus to go bashing them like this. Its common knowledge that NS blades are Leaderfins, and if you ask Andrew he will gladly tell you that they are leaderfins with no problem. In fact me and you had this discussion about a year and a half ago and you didnt feel the urge to go bashing them then...

You say rebranding is normal in the industry and dont see it as a foul. But in the next sentence you say that its not OK for someone to rebrand, and sell it at a higher price under their brand? Isn't that what making money is about?

Who are you to tell someone what price to sell their stuff at?



and this doesn't help the situation either...You're gonna go bash someone publicly and then tell people not to ask you any questions? At least andrew is open about his source and what type of blades hes selling.

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Ben Choi

4-6 is always better than 9-5

Dan

You seem upset about my post Ben. Could it be because you bought the poor quality Leader fiberglass blades at a premium price? Interesting how despite attempting to make clear the difference in performance you refuse to see it.

It's not common knowledge, otherwise Nautilus fins would not be advertised as they are on their website and on spearboard. I also know this from talking to guys who are interested in Pursuit blades. This is something I made very clear in this thread. For you to state that it's common knowledge and speak for Andrew is absurd. Make those statements on SB and see if he'll be happy about it. If I recall correctly I was the one that informed you of the fact in the first place when you showed me your blades. In any case you are confirming that what I said in this thread is true.

I'm not feeling "the pinch", I feel irked because of the misinformation. If I was feeling the pinch I would not offer the blades at the price I think they're really worth, $160.

Your comprehension sucks. I said there's nothing wrong with rebranding, there is something wrong with advertising the same product at the same time under two different names. A differentiation who's goal is to funnel buyers to the "better" more expensive product. This would be obvious to anyone looking at the Nautilus website for the first time after reading this thread. The click to buy button is there for anyone who's not in "the know" which you claim to be. They'd be paying $25 more for a blue sticker.

fishingdude

You seem more upset about my post. Is it because I hit a sore spot in your business practices and you realize that your logic is flawed?

I absolutely see the difference in performance, but I also see the difference in price and the leaderfins were all I was able to afford at the time. It is common knowledge and has been posted on spearboard. Here is an example of such a post Good deal on carbon fins? - Page 3 - Spearboard Spearfishing Community

And for you to assume that I speak for Andrew is further evidence of your flawed logic. I said that if you ask andrew, which I have personally, I'm sure that he would admit that his blades are leaderfins. Did I say anything along the lines of: "Andrew says ____________"? No.

You were not the one who informed me of the fact that the NS blades were leaderfins. I actually showed andrew my leaderfins and he started to look into them more. You still havn't answered my question about why it recently bothered you that the NS blades were leaderfins and not a year ago when you found out about it.

I'm sure you'll probably ban me from this board for some unjustified cause, but whatever.

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Ben Choi

4-6 is always better than 9-5

Dan

This is where you spoke for your friend Andrew.And just now you did it again.And you're confirming what I'm saying.

smilinmatt

I haven't seen or used the Leader fins, but in concept, it is a good way to make cheap, effective fins. When you flex fins, the majority of the load is carried on the surface (the same reason that I-beams are used in construction- the interior is basically space filler). They're putting the material that will give the best response at that point. My guess is that they'll perform as well or better than any fiberglass fin with a similar durability as FG. From a strength standpoint, interior carbon is a waste, but it's "responsiveness"still adds to the performance.

All that being said, my last fins were a pair of Pursuit carbon's a little over a year ago (my next pair of fins will be Pursuits). I asked to have them custom fit into Beuchat pockets, which Dan agreed to do - and he did very well. My wife was the one that took them to him, and she was amazed that he was able to maintain his composure while making the modifications. (I wouldn't be surprised if he now requires a 4 figure modification fee along with a liter of rum).

If that's not enough of a promo, how about the fact that I was shooting hogfish last week in 95' while wearing a 5mm wetsuit (which makes you about as hydrodynamic as a manatee).

Dan

Thanks Matt, I blush when I read such praise

Actually the Leader carbon blades perform like decent fiberglass blades. A high quality fiberglass blade is produced with better consistency, to ideal dimensions rather than the dimensions being dictated by the maximum number of blades that can be cut out of a sheet, has a better and more precise flex profile, is more durable, lighter, and simply outperforms.

smilinmatt

There is more than just a little satisfaction in knowing that you just pulled the trigger at 90+ feet, can pull the fish far enough away from the bottom that it can't hole up, and carry your 5mm bloated self and gun up to the surface while maintaining a relaxed kick that isn't wasting your O2.

The best part is, you know it was a good dive, when the fish you just shot is suffering from a case of the bends so badly that bubbles are coming out from under the scales.

Dan

95' is a commendable depth to hunt. I once grabbed some sand at 87

I did a google search for Nautilus fins. One of the first results was this post on HSD confirming what I said about the blade rails not doing a good job of securing the blade to the footpocket tendons Hawaii Skin Diver • View topic - Nautilus Carbon Fiber FinsWhen you buy the leader blades from Pursuit the original rails will be replaced with Pursuit rails and that will solve the problem.

duskydiver

Dan, can i buy just a set of rails from you?